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I have to say, I was first concerned about your edits to my edits. I wasn't sure they were improvements at all. However, your next round of edits seems to be much better, and you found some better description and language than what I chose.
I think we'll be able to help each other as we clean this wiki up. Some of the descriptions I've read are absolutely incomprehensible, but I think we can fix it.
Being old enough to remember fondly this campy, delightful series, I think it deserves a good, solid, well-worded wiki. (Although I will leave the descriptions of the Will Ferrell movie to someone else, since I didn't see all of it, and what I did see didn't look so appealing.) 2603:9000:8D8A:D300:1938:E3FE:AD59:8F55 22:47, September 29, 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for the nice words. I want to apologize for the excessive edits, and I confess I'm a lousy typist, but I am a stickler for decent grammar and syntax, and I love for things to make sense. It's just that I've been writing for years, and I just now re-bonded with this show. I loved it as a kid, and I just now got the DVDs. I still have lists of all the dinosaurs for each episode and will be adding them soon.
I'm not a fan of the movie either. I never saw the 90s version thought so I have to build on whatever previous submitters wrote. Thor2000 (talk) 16:42, September 30, 2018 (UTC)
- Oh, don't worry about your edits. I've been riding roughshod over your stuff, too. Like misspelled words, dangling participles, tepid language and redundancies. Not that I'm criticizing. I'm guilty of the same things when I edit. I don't always notice my own grammatical mistakes either. It just takes a second person to proofread and pick up on what you missed.2603:9000:8D8A:D300:90EB:52DC:31CA:D6B5 10:43, October 1, 2018 (UTC)
In watching "Follow that Dinosaur" (on YouTube) I note that both Rick and Will refer to the chasm as "the crevasse." If that's what the characters are calling it, perhaps our edits should reflect this. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to even include an entry on The Crevasse. It's certainly an important element of the show. I noted in the first episode of season three, After Shock, in which Jack replaces Rick, that a large tyrannosaur fell into the crevasse during the earthquake. I thought perhaps that Grumpy had died, since Alice and Lulu seemed to be the primary antagonists of season three. But I note that Chaka taunts Grumpy into charging at Malak during the episode "Flying Dutchman," so it must have been another t-rex.2603:9000:8D8A:D300:90EB:52DC:31CA:D6B5 10:43, October 1, 2018 (UTC)
You're right. Not sure why I started calling it The Chasm. I'll correct it. As far as Grumpy, didn't the episode show him digging itself out. The episode recycles footage from Split Personality. Thor2000 (talk) 18:12, October 1, 2018 (UTC)
Also, since you have greater editing capabilities than I do, can you rename the page Captain Reuben Van de Meer"? I looked up the episode on IMDb and I note they list him in the credits as Captain Ruben Van de Meer. I realize "Reuben" is the usual spelling of the name, but he appears to be an exception.
On the subject of that episode "Flying Dutchman," I added a plot to the entry, since it had none, although it might be excessively long and detailed. Perhaps you'd like to help me whittle it down to an appropriate length? The episode is available on YouTube, if you care to watch it for details. 2603:9000:8D8A:D300:90EB:52DC:31CA:D6B5 10:43, October 1, 2018 (UTC)
My name is Patrick, and I'm the same guy who's been annoying the crap out of you with edit wars on the Dopey Page and all the other stuff I've been messing with very recently. I also wrote the Flying Dutchman plotline, which I see you didn't mess with too much, so I must be doing something right.
But I figured since I'm a huge fan of the show, and I feel like we work well together, I ought to have my own talk page so we can yell at each other at some place besides your wall. Very nice to have met you, and you seem like a good guy. So, I hope we can polish this stuff up and give Land of the Lost the Wiki it deserves.
Some of the stuff (and I'm not blaming anyone; we all screw up when our writing gets ahead of our thought process or vice versa), it outright embarassing. For instance, look at the Holly Marshall page. And look at "Personality and Appearance," and read the first two sentences and tell me what you see.
I feel like I should ask, "But is she smart?"
One of the things I notice about Holly is that, despite the fact that the Land of the Lost is completely alien to her (like it would be to anyone else), she shows more solicitude for the creatures in the Land of the Lost than any of the other intelligent beings (I include both humans and Pakuni with this term). For instance, when Grumpy and Big Alice go at it in "Follow That Dinosaur") and Grumpy briefly gains the upper hand, Holly cries out, "He's going to hurt her!"
Uh, yeah, he's going to hurt Alice, that same allosaurus who has tried to disembowel you more than once, Holly. Or maybe she just hates Grumpy intensely, even preferring Alice to him. When Dopey got stuck in the tar pit, she remarked that she wished it had been Grumpy instead.
Something to think about.
She's also very resourceful. For instance, there was the time when she was trapped in the cave at High Bluff alone with Grumpy right outside. Will (hiding behind rocks outside) yelled for her to get the flyswatter. Holly pointed out that she wasn't big enough to use it by herself, but she got the idea to use crystals instead, which did the trick.
Thank you, by the way, for moving Ruben Van de Meer, to reflect the spelling of his name on IMDb, and I also like the very thorough job you did on detailing the entry on The Flying Dutchman. The only minor quibble I have is that you might want to be clearer as to when you're talking about the Flying Dutchman of legend, and when you're talking about the show's version. In your first paragraph, you're talking about the legendary version and in the second paragraph, you're talking about the Land of the Lost version without clarifying that this is the Land of the Lost version, not necessary the legendary version. PJC65 (talk) 19:31, October 1, 2018 (UTC)
- Most of the site is exactly as it was when I found it abandoned, but I think I've slowly got it up to a more consistent and grammatically pleasing state. Bear in mind, I'm autistic, but possibly a high functioning one so that possibly is evident in my writing and other FANDOM sites. The Flying Dutchman intro reflects what can be deduced from situations and dialogue in the series before going into the series details. Thor2000 (talk) 19:45, October 1, 2018 (UTC)
Minor Points Edit
First, I love what you did with the Toola page I created with only a minor description. I also like the description about how it causes a person to act selfishly and in a "Mr. Hyde" sort of way.
The only points of contention I have (having just watched the episode today) is that Enik never said, nor implied, that the bite of the Toola would cause the victim to die through cardiac arrest. He was quite clear that the bite would kill the victim by inducing him to act in self-destructive ways. (As illustrated when Cha-Ka almost ran right into Lulu, and didn't seem to be in any hurry to remove himself from harm's way.)
Also, Enik didn't say that the cure was in acting passively toward it (which seems like an oxymoron, "acting passively"), but by treating it with kindness. Cha-Ka did so by feeding it a flower.
Good point about how it's curious that Enik knew about Egyptian culture. I wondered about that myself.
Also, technically, there are some distinct species which CAN mate and produce offspring.
Tiglon - Offspring of male tiger and lioness. Liger - Offspring of male lion and tigress. Mule - Sterile hybrid of horse and donkey.
Though I grant that I've never heard of reptiles interbreeding, but technically, there are some species of mammals that can and do.
Also, things are shaping up. I would say our Dopey page and Big Alice page are finished products.
I will try to add one plotline a day, as I did yesterday with Flying Dutchman yesterday and Scarab today.
If your talk page gets too cluttered, please feel free to remove the old resolved discussions that I've started here. No one seems to be here but us. I wish that each entry had its own talk page, since we seem to be the only ones here. PJC65 (talk) 19:47, October 2, 2018 (UTC)
- I reverted back Alice because only animals of the same GENUS mate. Lions and Tigers are both member of the genus Panthera. Allosaurs and Tyrannosaurs are both in the Sairischia order, but they have separate families and genus. However, the bio does note the Land of the Lost versions may be different. Thor2000 (talk) 20:11, October 2, 2018 (UTC)
I'll be honest. I'm not really happy with the compromise you struck on the Toola. I don't understand how you arrived at these conclusions at all. Enik never said, nor implied cardiac arrest. The only explanation he gave is that it's sting "releases the evil side of one's nature and one is put on a course of self-destruction." There is nothing that implies cardiac arrest there. Just as it caused Cha-Ka to act in malicious ways, it caused him to act in self-destructive ways.
And Chaka's disregard for his life and safety is evinced throughout the episode. He taunts Grumpy, which is obviously a dangeorus thing to do, and enters the Sleestak caves on his own, just for the purpose of stealing something and setting Will up to take the fall. No one knows better than he does how dangerous the Sleestak are.
I don't understand how you're getting cardiac arrest from that. The changes induced by the bite of the Toola are entirely behavioral.
Here is the video, set to the point where Enik reveals what he knows about the Toola. I see nothing that he said that implies cardiac arrest.
Also, listen to the part where Jack speaks to Cha-Ka after saving him from Lulu, at 19:25. "Cha-Ka, do you see how you almost got yourself killed, by your own self-destruction?" To me, it's too clear for dispute. Everything Enik and Jack said makes it clear that the scarab's bite will kill Cha-Ka by causing him to act without regard for his own life and safety, or even acting in ways to ensure his death.
Also, while I appreciate the entomological explanation for the scarab's bite, being a venom and being cured by pheromones, the story never makes it clear whether Toola is a natural creature or some sort of mystical being. The creature could entirely be mystical in nature. Nor is it necessarily an entire species. It could be an entirely one-of-a-kind mystical being.
Jack does tell Cha-Ka that he has "to break the spell," but of course, he could be speaking figuratively.
I also disagree on acting passively. Enik said "treating it with kindness." "Acting passively" would be treating it with indifference. Cha-Ka actively did an act of kindness toward it by feeding it a flower. That's not acting passively toward it. That's being accommodating toward it. Perhaps, by being given a food it loves, it naturally releases these "pheromones" that instantly neutralize its "venom."
Finally, this sentence you keep putting in makes no sense grammatically, "The Toola's sting causes severe pain for several seconds with its effects taking effect within several seconds, resulting in the described malicious, selfish aspects of the victim's personality taking over."
"severe pain for several seconds with its effects taking effect within several seconds..." Uh, what? How about, "The Toola's sting causes severe pain for several seconds, after which the described malicious, selfish aspects of the victim's personality taking over"?
But you're the boss here. I disagree completely with your take on this. I realize it's up to you. But at least my objections have been voiced.
- To me, it needs to sound pragmatic and less theatrical. I know the episode says "treating it with kindness," but what does that mean scientifically? I know the exact wording is "one is put on a course of self-destruction," but that isn't scientific either. If he means they are driven to a point where their heart explodes, that's known as cardiac arrest. Maybe Enik means Cha-Ka would eventually hate so much that he commits suicide, but do we really want to go there? My purview of this site is to treat it on a realistic level. How does Torchy's fire-breathing work? How do the crystals work? What exactly is the Land of the Lost? I mean, you can either just repeat everything word for word from the series, but wouldn't it be more interesting to hear "Oh, so that's how that worked!" Does that make sense? Making the series sound more real to fans instead of just repeating what it says word for word? Thor2000 (talk) 21:58, October 2, 2018 (UTC)
- We have philosophical differences, and it will make things difficult between us, I'm sure. But we can work around this, I suppose. Though it likely means we'll spend more time talking to each other than writing entries. But at least entries are now being done. The Flying Dutchman now has a plotline, as does Scarab, and Big Alice and Dopey now make sense.
- How does Torchy's breath work? It can't. This is fantasy. Terrestrial beings cannot breathe fire and there is no evidence that any creature in the world, including Dimetrodons (which is what Torchy is), ever breathed fire. You might attempt to make an explanation that sounds semi-plausible for the sake of making it sound real. But that is not canon. The series never offered an explanation. Consequently, any explanation you give is not canon and not part of the series. It's merely speculation, or your artistic flourish.
- Like the dilophosaurs in Jurassic Park having a hood and spitting venom. No evidence they ever did that. Just something they added to the fantasy. But at least it's more plausible than fire-breathing Dimetrodons. Even Lulu makes more sense than Torchy. She's simply a mutated version that has two heads. She wouldn't be the first creature in the animal kingdom with two heads.
- As for "treating it with kindness," I don't see anything hard about that scientifically. It simply means doing something that accomodates the creature. Like petting my cat. My cat has been conditioned to respond to petting by purring. And apparently the scarab responds to being fed flowers by releasing pheromones. What is so hard about treating a creature with kindness? It means accommodating the creature's basic needs or desires in some way.
- You may have trouble with this but actively giving a beetle a flower is not "acting passively." It is actively accommodating the creature's needs/desires. In this case, Cha-Ka gave it food. Another way might have been bringing it in from the rain. It accomodates a creature's needs and it responds by releasing its curative pheromone.
- And I also don't see what's so hard about how the scarab's sting can cause Cha-Ka to act in self-destructive ways. Enoch said it and Jack confirmed it. You're accepting of the fact that the scarab's sting supressed Cha-Ka's good nature and brought his selfish, malicious nature to the fore, but you can't accept that it also supressed Cha-Ka's sense of self-preservation? Everything Cha-Ka did in that episode since being bitten and before he was cured was self-destructive. He taunted Grumpy, which he only did once, and that was fleeing Malak. He waltzed right into the Sleestak caves, which is something he's never done. And no one is more terrified of the Sleestak than Cha-Ka (and given his size, that's understandable). Cha-Ka also said that he doesn't like Will and doesn't like anyone. Maybe that extends to himself?
- There's just nothing even remotely suggesting cardiac arrest. This isn't like trying to explain Torchy's breath. You're not trying to craft a scientific explanation in absence of one in the plotline. You're actively defying the explanation given because you don't like it. PJC65 (talk) 23:01, October 2, 2018 (UTC)
- You've obviously never read Marvel or DC Comics. We all know no one gets powers from a radioactive spider and there's no such thing as a magic hammer yet their handbooks describe how those things work. They even described how Godzilla's fire-breathing worked, but yet, if we are going to go by only what the series says, why are we using research about dinosaurs? Why are we talking about the phenomenon of the series at all? Why bother making a site that just vomits what the series already said? Why bother make this site at all?? You think I don't like the series explanations? I just want to explain it so it makes sense instead of sounding like nonsense. You said Cha-ka "actively accommodating the creature's needs/desires" but that can be shortened to say the exact same thing by saying "he acted passively to it." Thor2000 (talk) 17:29, October 3, 2018 (UTC)
- I don't know what you think is meant by the word "passive," but it obviously doesn't mean what you think it means. A little like the word "fetch" on the Dopey article. "Fetch" means "to bring back." Dopey didn't fetch the stick; he went to it and ate it.
- "Acting passively" is an oxymoron. "Active" and "passive" are antonyms. If he were "passive" toward the scarab, he would sit there inert as the scarab did whatever it wanted to him, like sting him again. He gave the scarab a flower to eat. That is not passive. If my girlfriend served me dinner and I told her she was being "passive" toward me for giving me food, I don't think that would go over well. In fact, she'd likely be irritated at the very suggestion that bringing me food was "passive."
- Regarding the scarab's bite, you're willing to accept the fact that the scarab's bite induces behavioral changes. Why can't you accept the fact that among those behavior changes, it suppresses inhibitions and fear response, allowing the victim to act in reckless ways? Especially since Cha-Ka had been acting recklessly throughout the entire episode? He taunted Grumpy, entered the Sleestak caves and almost ran straight into Lulu and seemed to be in no hurry to get away from Lulu. Jack had to carry him away from Lulu.
- Cha-Ka is normally terrified of the Sleestak. He didn't seem to be so afraid of during this episode when he calmly walked into their cave, for no other reason that stealing their Skull and setting Will up to take the fall.
- Does that explanation make sense to you? That the scarab's bite, in addition to bring a person's malicious nature to the fore, also removes a person's inhibitions and fears, allowing them to act in ways without regard for their life or safety?
- Know what "passive" means. I know what "fetch" means. I don't know why you deleted my last response.
Why can't you accept the fact that among those behavior changes, it suppresses inhibitions and fear response, allowing the victim to act in reckless ways? Because that was already established in the bio
What the bio needed was scientific reasons for Enik's responses. You didn't like "cardiac arrest." How about "systemic shock?" "Aneurysm?" How about "compulsive self-destructive tendencies?" What works with you?
You didn't like "acting passively?" What is a more psychological explanation that sounds better? "Responding positively?" "Acting in better interest?" "Acting positively?" "Reciprocate positively" You could have offered a million options instead of attacking the wording; you know what I was trying to say. How would you have said it and meant the same thing? Thor2000 (talk) 22:33, October 3, 2018 (UTC)
Did I delete your last response? I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. There is no reason to do that, and certainly not on your talk page. I might delete something on my own talk page, if I felt it was already addressed and no longer relevant, but I have no right to do that to yours. That should be your prerogative and no one else's. If I did do that, I promise you it was an accident, and I'm very sorry. I kept wondering where your response was. I saw it once, then it was gone.
"Compulsive, self-destructive tendencies" sounds excellent to me. "...further afflicting the victim with compulsive, self-destructive tendencies." Or "...causing the victim to act with compulsive, self-destructive tendencies." That is certainly borne out by Cha-Ka's behavior throughout the episode and it definitely matches Enik's description, and Jack's assessment of Cha-Ka's behavior. Excellent description. Perfect, in fact.
That aside, maybe I'm not the person to help you do this. I'm not here to upset you, but that' obviously what's happening here. I'm here because I like the show, and I think it deserves a good wiki. But we have conflicting visions that won't serve this wiki. PJC65 (talk) 23:09, October 3, 2018 (UTC)
You might consider adding some details about his fiery breath weapon. For instance, how far does it look like he can project his flame? I would say, judging by the scene where he's breathing flames at Cha-Ka (Timestop, I think the episode's called), it looks like his range is around 15-20 feet.
Also, how hot do his flames get? In that same episode, he sufficiently melted the locking mechanism of the pylon as to make it inoperable and irrepairable. I know we don't know what the pylons are truly made of, but it is a metal with a sufficiently low melting point for Torchy's breath, and at the same time, sufficiently strong to make the Marshalls realize that any effort to get through it would be futile. And Jack, as an engineer, must know.
If you don't want to speculate at exact temperatures for Torchy's breath, you could just say that a few repeated discharges was sufficient to melt the unknown metal from which the pylons were made. PJC65 (talk) 15:01, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
- In looking it up, methane (natural gas) burns at 1960 degrees (Centigrade) or 3560 degrees (Fahrenheit). PJC65 (talk) 19:25, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
Glad to see you're tinkering with my additions. It shows that you like these additions, even if you don't necessarily agree with the phrasing. In most cases, I prefer your phrasing to mine anyway.
Glad to see you added the parameters to Torchy's fire-breathing ability. Even if we don't know exactly what Torchy is capable of.
I added a plotline to "Cornered." As always, if you feel it's excessively long or detailed, we can always whittle it down. I wanted to include the lyrics to Will's song at the end, but I think it would look better single-spaced. I'm just not sure that's possible. Of course, we don't have to include the lyrics. We could just get by with saying that he performs a song which he dedicates to Holly. PJC65 (talk) 17:56, October 5, 2018 (UTC)
- Why don't we just create a page for songs? We could then list the song lyrics and Will's songs there by episode. Thor2000 (talk) 18:15, October 5, 2018 (UTC)
Just An ObservationEdit
I was just watching the episode "Downstream." Since the character of Jefferson Davis Collie III is mentioned in Medusa. Is it just me, or is Rick Marshall a total dick? I'm glad Jack finally replaced him. He's got more a sense of humor, at least, and he isn't as bossy. (Of course, that might have to do with his understanding that he isn't Will and Holly's father.) PJC65 (talk) 12:26, October 7, 2018 (UTC)
- I liked Spencer Milligan. He did a good job playing a father, and he made me really believe he was their father. I think the series lost something with Uncle Jack. Thor2000 (talk) 15:50, October 7, 2018 (UTC)
Strangely, I just got a notification in my email about recent changes, only to see that it was a notification about changes on October 2. Odd.
At this moment, I'm working on a profile for Hot Air Artist. We should be able to have some fun with the trivia section on this one given all the scientific errors in this episode, such as using hydrogen to cause Torchy's own fiery breath to ignite. A cloud of hydrogen would not have stayed at ground level long enough for Torchy to finally get around to igniting it.
Also, I note that when Jack and the Colonel are making their way back to the Temple that the Marshalls have made into their home, they encounter a bipedal carnivorous dinosaur that Jack identifies as Grumpy. Is it just me or is that the model they actually use for Big Alice?
Grumpy is a mottled brown and gray, but that T-Rex was green. Also, the head was trimmer, like Alice's.
I like this episode because it finally addressed the question that had been gnawing in my mind since the beginning of Season Three: What happens to Cha-Ka if the Marshalls escape? While there is no reason to believe that the Pakuni have gone extinct since the earthquake, we do know they left, and a fissure in the ground forced them to leave Cha-Ka behind. So, practically speaking, he's the last of his kind. And he's too small to be left to himself. PJC65 (talk) 12:44, October 13, 2018 (UTC)
- They were probably reusing stock footage they had -
- What annoys me about the last season were all these characters coming and going and yet, the Marshalls can't leave. Thor2000 (talk) 19:57, October 13, 2018 (UTC)
Here we go again...Edit
I'll be blunt. Your latest round of "edits" are giving me the impression that you want to ensure you leave your mark on everything, whether it's an improvement or not. And in some cases, you're willing to change clear statements into an incomprehensible mess just for the sake of having the last word.
For example: after I painstakingly redid the Colonel's wiki to include a description of his appearance and personality. Would you like to see what you changed it to???
Here's your edit, and I quote, "Usually called the Colonel (which everyone calls him)…"
Does that really sound like it was taken from a well-written wiki entry to you??? It would be redundant, except that they don't quite say the same thing. One says he's USUALLY called the Colonel then it says that EVERYONE calls him the Colonel. If that's the case, wouldn't he ALWAYS be called the Colonel?
And furthermore, I changed the Grumpy entry because it was a laughable mess. Grumpy did not "quarrel" with Big Alice. Please see the dictionary for the definition of the world "quarrel." A quarrel does not involve physical attacks, least of all those that involve trying to kill each other, which is what Grumpy and Big Alice were doing.
And finally, the show calls the divide between Grumpy and Big Alice's domains "the CREVASSE!" Not the CHASM, the CREVASSE. If this is to be a Land of the Lost wiki, it must use the terms that they use. Even if they called it "chicken noodle soup," than that's what we call it, and we explain what "chicken noodle soup" means to the Marshalls in an entry called "Chicken Noodle Soup."
Example: they call a sharpened log used to ram down Grumpy's throat "the flyswatter." We don't change the name. We don't call it something else. Otherwise we will confuse viewers of the show.
- Sorry. Wasn't having a good day yesterday. And I was annoyed that the edits you provided didn't seem to be improvements and in at least one case, grammatically made no sense whatsoever.
- These are some of the problems I had, and why I changed them.
- 1) This sentence: "Though while feared by almost everyone, he is not feared by Big Alice..." It's okay, but it sounds like something a fifth grader would write. Referring to Big Alice as a "notable exception" sounds more mature.
- Now that I think about it, it might not necessarily be true. Big Alice and Grumpy may well fear each other. That simply doesn't stop them from trying to kill one another. Just because you're willing to get into a fight with someone, it doesn't mean you don't fear them. Only a fool goes into a fight without some measure of trepidation.
- How about "While most creatures flee from Grumpy, a notable exception is Big Alice"?
- 2)This sentence: "Whenever they confront each other at the Chasm separating their hunting grounds, they just roar at each other."
- I thought we had previously agreed that we were calling this the "Crevasse," since that's what the Marshalls call it in "Follow that Dinosaur." Why are you changing it back to Chasm? We should be using the terminology that the show uses.
- And again, the sentence is okay, but kind of grade-school. "However, since their respective domains are separated by the Crevasse, their confrontations are usually restricted to just roaring at each other."
- 3) This sentence, easily the most ridiculous: "At one time, Grumpy actually managed to enter the Lost City himself and quarreled with her, neither of them managing to defeat each other."
- "...quarreled..."? Seriously? From dictionary.com, quarrel: "an angry dispute or altercation; a disagreement marked by a temporary or permanent break in friendly relations.
- a cause of dispute, complaint, or hostile feeling:
- She has no quarrel with her present salary."
- They were not "quarreling." They were trying to kill each other, not exchanging harsh words. PJC65 (talk) 15:06, October 15, 2018 (UTC)
- Roscoe T. Post - There were too many details in his personality and just not enough in his bio/background. I tried abridging it. I didn't do a good job because I was stressed out by unrelated stuff in my life right now.
- Grumpy - It's kind of hard to stop writing like a writer when you're used to writing like that. "Chasm/Crevasse" was an accident, "so was "quarrel," but the original wording: "Though while feared by almost everyone, a notable exception is Big Alice, the Allosaurus guarding The Lost City." sounds awkward. The description is about Grumpy, but then it sounds as if there's this huge focus on Alice. It just sounds better grammatically:
"Though while feared by almost everyone, Grumpy is not feared by Big Alice, the Allosaurus guarding The Lost City." This way, the prepositional phrase starting the sentence is connected to "Grumpy" (the subject of the sentence) instead of just dangling there.
- I am at least re-linking to Dinosaur Nip and completing the fact about his leg. Thor2000 (talk) 17:03, October 15, 2018 (UTC)
Okay, I like your edits better this time. At the very least, we can keep out the reference to "quarreling." It brings up an image of Grumpy and Big Alice shaking their fingers from their tiny forelimbs at each other. They're not having a lovers' spat. They're trying to kill each other. I'm especially glad you put back the hole dug by the Sleestak part. I meant to do that, but I forgot.
Regarding the reference to Big Alice, it is important to point out that she's the one exception to the rule that everyone runs from Grumpy. But this can be done as a parenthetical remark. "Grumpy is feared by everyone (with the exception of Big Alice)."
I understand that we don't want the focus to be on Big Alice, but on the other hand, an article about Grumpy can hardly be complete without some focus on his primary nemesis. She is the one creature who doesn't run from Grumpy and fought him to a stalemate. That's one impressive feat.
We can keep working on this until we find an acceptable amount of content that focuses on Big Alice. Like I said, I understand that it's Grumpy's article. But she is his primary nemesis.
Regarding the rest of it, I'm glad you kept most of my stuff. I tried to give a better description of the flyswatter as a primitive battering ram, which is about the best description I can think of. I got the idea from an earlier incarnation of this article, describing the Marshalls as "ramming" or "cramming" the stick down his throat. (Can we please avoid the use of childish words like "cramming"? They "forced" it down his throat, not "crammed" it.
I will watch the Hot Air Artist again for more details about the Colonel's life. It's just important to realize that the episode title is a reference to him. It's not about the balloon (which is a gas balloon); it's the fact that he's full of hot air. 90% of what he says about himself is probably exaggerated, if not an outright lie.
At the moment, I'm working on Timestop. And I've concluded that while all the episodes are flawed, this one has some especially strange problems with it. Like why are Enik and the Marshalls determined to keep the crystal. Since it controls time, why can't they both use it? Enik could send the Marshalls home, then use it to return to his own time. For that matter, he could return to the Aftershock and reunite Cha-Ka with his own people.
And Jack proposes that they could turn back time to when they first entered the Land of the Lost and step back through the portal. I don't see how, since all three of them went through the portal by way of a vertical drop. Unless Jack has a way to fall up, they can't go back the way they came. Plus they would not only have to go back far enough to reach the portal, they would have to find a way to prevent them from falling down that waterfall again.
- Truthfully, I like your edits, I just have a problem with at times with grammar use and syntax, As far as Timestop, it has problems much of the Third Season has, a decline in writing. The plot never makes sense. Even as early as The Stranger, Will should know that by helping Enik, he could be helping himself, but he's meant to be so hot-headed, he doesn't want to see that. Even the sibling rivalry and sniping between Will and Holly was ridiculous at times. Thor2000 (talk) 19:25, October 15, 2018 (UTC)
- I don't mean to say this in a petty, vindictive sense, but as you can see, I have problems with yours too, sometimes. It's not anything about you personally. I just think most people, even professional writers, which we both are, can commit grammatical errors. I think it comes mostly from the fact that we think faster than we type. I'll be halfway through a sentence, then think of a better way to say it and shift gears in midstream, so what comes out is an extremely awkward sentence. Or worse. That's why editors and proofreaders exist. PJC65 (talk) 20:00, October 15, 2018 (UTC)
- I do the same thing myself, but I never thought of it as "thinking faster." I think of it as "thinking too far ahead." You should read some of my on-line stuff. Thor2000 (talk) 20:08, October 15, 2018 (UTC)
- Just a warning when typing or adding a lot of data to the site. I have frequently lost pages because Wikia went down into service mode or updating its formats and locked me out from saving my work. I find typing stuff on WordPad works great so nothing is lost before posting. Thor2000 (talk) 19:36, October 15, 2018 (UTC)
Emily's First Appearance?Edit
According to the "Dopey (episode)" entry, that episode was the first appearance of Dopey and Emily. However, looking at Emily's page, it says under "Episodes" that she appeared in the "Cha-Ka" episode.
I reviewed that episode now, and I think it's referring to the fact that there is a brontosaurus in the background (which may or may not be Emily) while the family is viewing Spot for the first time. The only dinosaurs named were "Spot," and "Grumpy," first used by Rick Marshall, probably due to Holly's question about him, "Why is he so grumpy?"
Interesting thing though. There's a Grumpy and a Dopey. I wonder if the early writers were planning to get rest of the Seven Dwarfs in there somehow, and we might have had a Happy, Sneezy, Bashful, Doc and a Sleepy.
Now I'm also thinking, perhaps we should make a distinction between the Dinosaurs that actually had something to do in the episode and those dinosaurs that were simply in the background. Sort of as "cameo" appearances. Also, we might make a distinction between when a dinosaur first appeared vs. when the dinosaur was actually named.
If we accept the fact that the brontosaurus in the background in the Cha-Ka episode is Emily, then the trivia note in Dopey (episode) is wrong. At the very beginning of the Cha-Ka episode, as the Marshalls are looking at Spot, there is very clearly a brontosaurus in the background. PJC65 (talk) 16:10, October 20, 2018 (UTC)
- I think I know what you're saying. Maybe some of the listed appearances should be followed by tags like (cameo only) if they're not pertinent to the plot. For Emily, maybe mention (unnamed) to denote its an appearance before they were named. Sound okay? Thor2000 (talk) 21:02, October 20, 2018 (UTC)
- That works. And yes, you grasped exactly what I'm saying. As long as they're doing something more than walking around or eating in the background.
- I also think there's a kind of gray area, too. For instance, in "The Flying Dutchman," Cha-Ka is looking through a telescope and sees Torchy and gets startled, exclaiming "Torchy!" Is that a cameo or something more? I would say "Not a cameo" because even though Torchy did nothing to advance the plot, he was, at least, responded to by one of the characters. Grumpy and Spot had a humorous bit in "Fair Trade," when Grumpy got stuck in a pit dug by the Sleestak and Spot bit him on the tail. It doesn't exactly advance the plot, but they were the focus at that point. PJC65 (talk) 22:58, October 20, 2018 (UTC)
- I think "cameo" can be used to cover all instances where the dinosaurs (even non-dinosaurs like Torchy and Lulu) made appearances without even adding to the plot. Thor2000 (talk) 17:53, October 21, 2018 (UTC)
- I think it would be best if it referred to all appearances by dinosaurs when they are at least part of the focus and not serving as background. To say that dinosaurs must be "adding to the plot" would consign Spot and Grumpy to cameo appearances in "Fair Trade." Even though they were the focus at that point (since there were no humans or Pakuni in the scene), Grumpy getting stuck in the hole and Spot biting him on the tail doesn't add anything to the plot. I think the writers and producers had "comic relief" in mind for those two. I think it should be basically when their actions and interactions become the focus of the action, rather than serving as a background.
- I think "cameo" can be used to cover all instances where the dinosaurs (even non-dinosaurs like Torchy and Lulu) made appearances without even adding to the plot. Thor2000 (talk) 17:53, October 21, 2018 (UTC)
- Also, unrelated, but I spotted this in the Emily entry: "It is unrevealed if she is the only species of her kind or part of a much larger herd." When Rick is trying to talk Holly into giving up Dopey, he points out that there are other brontosaurs in the swamp and maybe Emily will adopt him. That would be suggesting that Emily is not the only brontosaurus and that there are others in Land of the Lost. PJC65 (talk) 18:24, October 21, 2018 (UTC)
Hello, William! It's been a while. I also added a plot to Ancient Guardian, and thanks for fixing up the Songs page. I could not figure out how to do the single spacing. Also, I note it how has a working table of contents on that page. When I tried to link the song from Ancient Guardian to the proper place, I couldn't get the table of contents to show up so I could link it. PJC65 (talk) 19:18, January 13, 2019 (UTC)
- Yeah, I got distracted by other writing projects. I was never happy with just one. Unfortunately, everything came to a head last weekend when my back went out. Even sitting up in a chair has become a chore for me. Thor2000 (talk) 19:25, January 13, 2019 (UTC)
- Poor guy. Sorry about your back. And you sound like me when I do my writing. If it weren't for deadlines, I would be constantly rewriting and editing thing till the end of time, never satisfied. Rest and recover, and get some nice pain relievers and muscle relaxants from the doctors.
- By the way, in reviewing Ancient Guardian, I have to say that was a bad episode. The Marshalls are like, "Yay! We saved the Sleestak!" apparently forgetting that they're the idiots who put them in danger in the first place. And that Kona nearly wiped them out by consuming their eggs. "Hey, it's a wooden statue of a Sleestak that we've never seen before and is obviously important to the Sleestak! Let's take it! The Sleestak won't mind!" PJC65 (talk) 19:30, January 13, 2019 (UTC)
- The Marshalls did think it had been abandoned. They did not know it was serving a purpose when they moved it. Thor2000 (talk) 19:45, January 13, 2019 (UTC)
Happy Birthday (late)Edit
- Thank YouThor2000 (talk) 19:37, January 14, 2019 (UTC)
I decided that the Flyswatter needed its own entry, as it appears several times throughout the series, and since it's a nickname, an explanation of what it is would be in order.
I made estimates on its length and circumference and found a website that actually estimates the weight of logs depending on length, circumference and type of wood. Since conifers existed during the days of the dinosaurs, and its wood is sufficiently dense and strong for its intended purpose, I estimated its weight assuming it was old-growth redwood. Ten feet long, eight inches in diameter, it was probably 130 pounds. It had to be sufficiently heavy to discourage Holly from even attempting to use it alone.
- I did. I also lifted an image of it from a LOTL video on You Tube. Thor2000 (talk) 19:37, January 14, 2019 (UTC)
- I went back over it and did some edits to my own stuff and yours. We'll just go back on forth on it like we usually do, until we arrive at something that satifies us both. I tweaked the grammar in some places, like "...intentional ironic..." It can be "intentionally ironic" or "intentional irony," but not "intentional ironic."
- I'm not sure what Rick Marshall meant by "the ol' flyswatter trick on Emily." They certainly weren't trying to hurt Emily or drive her away, only make her back up a few steps. Seems strange to compare what they were doing with Emily to what they do with Grumpy. In watching the series when it was new, I remember never being concerned that the flyswatter would kill Grumpy, but looking back at it, I realize it certainly could have.
- Although I do remember thinking that the whole flyswatter bit was unnecessary to begin with. Grumpy would almost certainly get tired of waiting and go away to hunt somewhere else. There was no danger to any of the Marshalls as long as they stayed in the cave, and with the supplies they had on hand, they could have almost certainly waited him out. So, why use that silly flyswatter at all?
- It could be argued, I suppose that they were trying to discourage Grumpy from returning, but as the series showed, that didn't work: Grumpy is simply not intelligent enough to learn through repetition.
- By the way, I also added a plotline to "The Test." I don't know if you noticed. It was an interesting episode. While Alice doesn't look at all like an allosaurus (missing the decorative growths that allosaurs have over their eyes, and being as large as Grumpy, which allosaurs were not), it certainly provided a very useful contrast between Alice and Grumpy. I was especially impressed by the way she snuck up on Cha-Ka. Grumpy, unlike Alice, has never been stealthy a day in his life. He roars and bellows the entire time he's hunting something, announcing his presence to every creature within ten miles and alerting his prey of his approach at least two minutes before he gets there. The Dopey episode is a case in point.
- Although neither Grumpy nor Alice could be described as intelligent animals, it seems Alice is the brighter of the two...which is a little like saying a mushroom is smarter than a rock. PJC65 (talk) 23:50, January 14, 2019 (UTC)
I was unable to find the correct size of allosaurus eggs online, but when seeing Alice's egg in "The Test," I thought, "Goodness. That must have hurt." Even for a tyrannosaurus-sized allosaurus (who doesn't resemble an allosaurus at all), that egg seemed preposterously large.
It then occurred to me that perhaps I could contact a museum that specializes in paleontology and ask them if they had any information on the size of allosaurus eggs, so I emailed Ken Carpenter, the Curator of Paleontology at the Utah State University Museum, and he got back to me quite promptly.
Allosaurs eggs, it turns out, are about the size of goose eggs. From Dr. Carpenter: "An egg was found at the Cleveland-Lloyd Dinosaur Quarry and is most logically that of Allosaurus. The shell structure is more avian than any other vertebrate, and the same egg type was found in Portugal with hatchling or embryo bones of an allosaur. The size of the Cleveland-Lloyd egg is surprisingly small: the size of a goose egg."
He also sent me a picture of his museum's display showing the cast of a black allosaurus egg next to a goose egg for size comparison. They are indeed about the same size. the allosaurus egg perhaps slightly larger. PJC65 (talk) 09:28, January 15, 2019 (UTC)
- Cool - Thor2000 (talk) 18:48, January 15, 2019 (UTC)
- He also sent me a close up of his museum's display of the Allosaurus egg, next to a goose egg for comparison. He says I can use the image however I wish, but asks that I give the museum credit. If you want to put the picture up for education purposes, I can send it to your Facebook. Or we can just say it's the size of a goose egg and leave it at that. It's definitely very interesting, but perhaps not particularly relevant. PJC65 (talk) 21:05, January 15, 2019 (UTC)
I added Will's song from Medicine Man onto the sound page, but I don't know how to single space it. Can you fix it? (Kind of a downer of a song to finish the series with. I'd rather see the Marshall's finally go home.) PJC65 (talk) 16:28, August 14, 2020 (UTC)
I like your final edits to Enik. Classifying him as a villain, even occasionally, is a mistake. He defended the Marshalls, for instance, in Scarab, even to the point where his life was threatened. He had a quite amicable relationship with them in The Orb. He also dutifully took care of Holly, even providing comfort to her in her distress, in Survival Kit.
The only time he could truly have said to have an adversarial relationship with the Marshalls, I think, is Timestop. And even then, can you blame him? He's been in the Land of the Lost many times longer than the Marshalls. He was competing with the Marshalls for the means to go home.
Yes, he does get impatient with the Marshalls, such as Abominable Snowman, but he sees himself as superior to them. And he does know some things they don't.
I think Enik can be best described as self-interested. Enik does what Enik does for Enik. Sometimes that brings him to cooperate with the Marshalls; occasionally, it brings him into conflict with them. But he is consistently self-interested. Even when he aided the Sleekstak in stealing their supplies to give to Malak, he insisted that what he was doing was for everyone's good, including the Marshalls'. He simply doesn't have emotional attachments (with the possible exception of Holly; he didn't seem especially concerned about Will in Cornered, but that could have been because he knew all along that Will would recover on his own). PJC65 (talk) 18:16, August 19, 2020 (UTC)